IlluviTalks #3 - Inside Crypto Gaming: Creators / Media Businesses, German Gamers & Future of NFTs

Is creating content and media businesses about Web3 games a good business opportunity?  What is different about the German gaming community vs the rest of the world? Which future utilities of NFTs do you see taking off and driving mass adoption?  Our expert panel of Scoriox, TSG and Sandro tackle these topics and more!

Follow Our Host & Guests
Andrew Wall (aka Awall) - https://twitter.com/awallcrypto
Scoriox: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-l-q_tG8kMLzSOIe_3RZDg
Sandro: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeyNF5V0rTSP5XZ0QBV514A
TSG - https://www.youtube.com/tsgilluvium + https://twitter.com/TSG__7

ABOUT THE GAME
Illuvium is an exploration looter and collectible autobattler game built on the Ethereum Blockchain, releasing on PC and Mac in 2022. Play and earn in a graphically-rich, vividly-realized sci-fi adventure and conquer the wilderness to help your crash-landed colony flourish.

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♊ Terms and Conditions ♊
Content on the official Illuvium website and social media does not constitute financial advice. You are responsible for doing your own research and seeking independent professional advice about your involvement with the Illuvium DAO and any Illuvium products or services. Illuvium products (such as tokens including ILV, sILV2, Land NFTs) and services (Illuvium game) are not financial products and accordingly the Illuvium DAO is not licensed by any regulator. Please be on constant alert for scams. You should read and ensure you understand the terms and conditions available on the official Illuvium website before engaging with the Illuvium DAO or any Illuvium products or services.

🧠 Learn More About Illuvium: https://www.illuvium.io/
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Transcript

one it's going live in three two one hey what's up everybody did you see the countdown happen isn't that awkward it is what's up everybody andrew wall here host and executive producer at eluvium and welcome to iluva talks we've got a stacked panel as always discussing the most interesting topics in crypto gaming and it's really important on this show that we lead the conversation about the future of gaming as a leading game studio and the only way to do that is to bring the smartest people in the entire internet onto the show including let's call him the king of german crypto gaming he commands the largest creator or the largest community as a creator in germany in crypto gaming it's this man right here sandra what's up buddy hi how's it going thank you you're welcome i don't know what to say welcome to the show we're going to talk about germany you're you all are going to learn a lot about german gamers and the german market today you're going to leave this episode knowing a lot of new things but the panel is even more stacked than that oh yeah we've got content creator returning on the show s g in the house he's probably gonna do his patented arm movements let's see him hey yo yo by the way guys andrew said the smartest people on this so i've been here on here twice so andrew has made it clear i am one of the smartest people i'm just joking i'm not going to say that but no i appreciate you having me back on guys

of course of course he's the smartest we're bringing him back thanks for coming on the show man and at the last minute one of our previous guests got covered we hope he feels better and so skoriox decided that to wake up at 3 00 a.m if you're not familiar with scoryawks already he is an eluvium focused creator that focuses on tokenomics nft structures that back game five projects and this man's back up out of bed after only sleeping for a couple hours welcome to the show buddy glad to be here um i don't know much about german gaming so i'm eager to learn as much as the audience as well perfect this is going to be a great episode and let's just go over all of the topics that we're going to cover today because it is going to be amazing first topic that we're going to cover today my friends is creators in media anyone that's looking to build a media business let's say and uh is looking to uh maybe big make a guild is maybe looking to become a live streamer is looking to build some kind of business in web 3 and crypto we're going to go over the space the competition and the opportunities there of building those online communities and taking advantage of the technologies of the future next we'll talk about germany the fifth largest gaming market in the entire world with sandro the king of germany german crypto communities i guess i don't know why i'm calling you a king it doesn't make any sense and then we're going to speculate and talk about the future of nfts their utility and we will do a live q a as well it's going to be great to cover all of these fascinating topics today and it goes without saying nothing any of these dudes say or i say on the show is financial advice maybe watching the show is a part of your research awesome i'm really glad you're doing research learn we all love learning we all love learning about this emerging technology do your own research make your own decisions we are just guys that like video games and new technologies and lastly bulldogs jerseys are here if you didn't know about these these are going to be some of the if not the very first actual official sort of merchandise if you will with alluvium branding on it we've partnered up with why would i even say it when i could play this video instead check it out ellutium has secured our first elite sporting partnership with legendary rugby league club the canterbury bankstown bulldogs we are proud to bring you official team jersey this exclusive elluvium bulldogs design each jersey comes with a cosplay nft and bonus classic membership to the canterbury bankstown bulldogs get yours today as 19 of these limited edition jerseys will be worn in game then signed by the bulldogs own players did you guys buy the jerseys i'm just curious to know i'm putting you on the spot did you guys buy some of these jerseys not yet not yet no not yet should i not into rugby it's okay that's all right it's kind of weird having a promotion by an american for rugby but what are you going to do so let's get into media businesses guilds influencers streamers if any of you out there want to get any attention in this new media space web 2 is the technology of yesterday web 3 is the future but is web3 a good business opportunity how can you capture attention how can you build a business in the space how can you make a guild a community a discord server a blog a podcast any of those things let's talk about that space right now because anyone that wants to get anything done in the future has to get people's attention first then they can go get something done after that if you don't have anyone's attention you don't matter and one of the great reports i like to look at to understand the space is the stream hatchet quarterly report some fascinating facts are in here including the fact that creator fatigue is a huge factor after covid guys so many people were creating content on the internet and they had time off of work that they actually are fatigued from creating so much content and pumping the internet full of so much content that we've seen a decline in the number of unique channels across major streaming platforms over 2019 2020 2021 and now 2022 that number has gone down which is really interesting so what this means for all of you out there is there is an opportunity because the more people are streaming 2021 being the peak the more competition there is out there in the media for you to get attention now that the number of streamers has gone down that means less competition this is a matter of supply and demand and the lower the supply of content and the more demand is out there for you to take advantage of and here was something that was really interesting i wanted to share with you guys in terms of the market share just in terms of video game streaming which crosses over into way more than just video games now right um just doing streams of just chatting people doing hot tub streams people playing chess doing all sorts of things on the internet now with live streaming shows like this are included in this report and can give you insights on what people are watching out there in the media and this report shows us that twitch is still the king of live streaming capturing 67 percent of the market all that purple down there is twitch with youtube only capturing 13 facebook though coming in at about 12 to 7 percent depending on how you're looking at it and then other platforms such as africa tv and trovo taking a minority portion of the market so twitch is still the dominant force and speaking of elluvium and esports we've talked about that in the previous episodes the biggest esports events and hours watched esports viewership keeps going up a trend that is really important for everyone to know from 2019 to 2020 it stayed about the same 2021 it spiked because of covid by 63 percent and despite the fact that less people are streaming right now more people are watching esports on the internet which is very very interesting and compelling and the top events are league of legends overwatch 2 cs go free fire and twitch rivals so moba at the top of the list and then lots of shooters out there in this environment really really cool stuff there's even more to take a look at here in this report i won't go over over all of it top esports organizations etc but the point of going over this report is to say that the market in terms of the number of people out there broadcasting and pumping content onto into the internet has decreased so does that mean there's an opportunity to build a media business right now let me kick it over to tsg first what are your thoughts on the opportunities for anybody out there trying to get attention in web 3 and make some side hustle happen yeah so i think obviously to answer the main question is is there an opportunity obviously even if they're honestly like even if there's more people streaming like like year on year i think the opportunity is still there it's just a bit harder right but the opportunity is absolutely there and as we transition to like this online space i think it's absolutely necessary like i think all of us are going to need a media presence of some kind whether it's a media full-blown media company like what like myself skyrocks and sandra are trying to do or if it's just someone like just anything that you want to do in your life right now it's like the opportunity is so crazy with with the internet like our parents grandparents didn't have this opportunity if you want to start a coffee shop like anything that you're interested in like if you're a big fan of harry potter you could very easily start a media company around harry potter if you're into smurfs you can start a media company around smash like whatever you are interested in the great thing about the internet is you can find the community and especially with discord twitter you can find a community to actually like build with and i think that's the biggest thing i think for me what i've noticed in my little six month experience with uh with alluvian my content creation creating content just out there like if you're just putting your stuff out there you're not going to compete with everyone because like you said there's like millions of people like new people coming into the space that and you're you're fighting against established people i think the way to go about it is by finding the community or the thing that you're interested in the most and andrew you've had this um we've had this discussion in our podcast as well find the thing that you're interested in um and then just find that community and then start providing value in our community start to network in that community spend every day if you're like commuting to and from work that's what i used to do back in the day with my my previous channel like when i was commuting to and from work instagram legitimately instead of consuming content network in that community like message people hey man i like what you're doing show genuine love like don't be artificial about it like if you see someone that you really think is good build that relationship like all of these things in my opinion and i could be wrong and i want to get your takes on it as well but i think building in like something that's actually going to last takes time and there's no shortcut to it so the way that i see like that people should approach it and like i said it could be about harry potter it could be about man like antique mugs like legitimately anything that you can think of find that community and build genuine relationships it takes one message at a time one day at a time and to build something that's going to last a long time it takes time and then once you build your core audience you can start to expand uh find other avenues and start to build it that way but i think first finding that community and providing value to that community is is the most important thing that anyone that's trying to make a name for themselves in any space online space i think that's the way to go uh i don't know what you guys think about that if you disagree yeah i'd be curious to know what sandro thinks so sandra and i have done something similar where we've created like a consulting business on the internet and we do media stuff along the way so sandra what are your thoughts on having a web 2 media business versus a web 3 media business is there some sort of difference or does it not matter at all like is this just a bunch of like fancy terminology for new tech and people are just trying to ride the trend i mean right now we're all interacting through web 2 tech right now talking to each other through a video call basically and on live streaming no there's nothing web 3 about this except for the discussions so what are your thoughts on building that web 3 business today yeah first of all i'm not a native english speaker so if there's some grammar wrong please don't be too hard yeah i think web3 is an opportunity of a lifetime for sure for someone who wants to start a side business or once uh wants to be a streamer so i see many people who are like um playing fortnite with like one viewer or two viewer on twitch at the moment and they won't make it like like that and if people understand that web 3 is a very very small niche at the moment but if you now invest your time to make good content it can it can be tokenomics you can be like the good in tokenomics and create content around the project and just make reviews about the the tokens they have or nfts and if you now invest your time in the web 3 space with like video content on youtube tick tock or creating a blog creating a discord community a guild or something this uh this could uh really be um in my opinion an opportunity of a lifetime because one i think once we start with the ones like in the elluvium for example is playable um it could go very fast that we reach the web 2 gamers and have like the interest from the from thousands of people it's not only the crypto investors and yeah it's i think now would be a good good time to to think about it to start like a web 3 business because with the normal games and web 2 games like fortnite or league of legends or stuff if you're not an esports player i think you won't be yeah that can be that big if you invest your time now that makes sense and i'm going to kick it over to square yachts here in just a minute there is some data here that i want to take a look at anyone that's looking to get attention in the space it clearly has to understand where the attention is going and what's been happening and so here we're looking at google trends on the terms crypto gaming nft gaming web 3 gaming and even elluvium and it's no secret that interest was at an all-time high last year in november right for all of these topics essentially especially alluvium right and any topics in the space and that interest has been declining over time and then going up a little bit now here recently but for the most part it's been kind of declining and been low significantly lower 85 down in terms of interest across the internet in all of the topics we're talking about not just alluvium the reason why i'm highlighting that is is this space you know is the space dead is this the worst time to get in or is this the best time to get in you know what i mean so a lot of people when the interest is high up here they're all starting youtube channels and they're getting hyped and starting streaming and they're jumping in on the trend but then once the interest decreases and starts to go away they leave is it like investing in that that's the literal opposite of what you should do or is it different in terms of building media businesses i'd be curious to know your thoughts scoriacs as a tokenomics minded person is there a parallel here between people getting in at the hype cycles at the top and then getting out at the bottom when they should have maybe done the opposite what are your thoughts on that um i think i think there's two avenues to this that that really speak to me now now the first one is that we've talked a lot about youtube and twitch and streaming and that sort of stuff but media and content creation isn't just video content right i know there are a lot of people out there that either don't want to show their face or don't want to put out their voice out there and stuff but there there really should be no reason for anyone to just not put themselves into a media presence whether it be through writing or otherwise even infoluvial's website and things like that have a lot of great articles on there and some of those writing forms are really fantastic to put yourself out there but i think i think when it comes to content creation really there's there's two big things you can't rush and they're both based on time you can't come in six months later and all of a sudden put out 200 videos and you can't come in six months later and come in six months of experience without having started right so i think there's really no there's no starting too early or starting too late or anything like that get in as soon as you can because you need to start that learning journey as soon as you possibly can maybe it doesn't begin with youtube or it doesn't begin with video content but you can't rush that process and i think in that respect in terms of do you start when the markets are low and everything like that your content is going to be much better quality when the markets do start to go up again and that is going to help you compete against everyone else who's just starting their youtube channels and things like that and so the earlier you start the better your content is going to be for when it comes time to compete with everyone else and vie for the user's attention that totally makes sense go ahead tsg no it's gonna say if i can jump in because that like i 100 agree with what garlic is saying and i think for anyone like again if you're trying to do writing if you're trying to do videos anything like that agree 100 start now and this is something that like what so two things one if you're starting now imagine you're playing basketball in the gym every video you do or every piece of content you make is you practicing it's a free throw that you're practicing and like what's going skyrock said when the playoffs come when it's when it's like peak bull market again you should be on your a game and this is what the time is now secondly you're like and then this is something that i learned from one of my favorite music artists and i have to say it on a podcast but like russ he said like this is the thing that he said we're so used to people like putting out like one content every two weeks or like putting it really slowly and it's like how often have we seen like a musical artist put out a song that went completely viral i'll use like uh what's his name designer with panda i don't know how like you guys are if you guys know what panda is but like the panda panda panda yeah so like he had that one song and it took over the world and then and then if i really liked it and i searched up designer on my phone guess what there's nothing else there you can't be like like i can't be your like you can't be my favorite artist if you've got one song and that's safe for content creators as well so like for like that's the reason why if you can understand that anyone that follows me that they'll understand why i pump out as much content as i do because i want to make sure that when it does hit when something does happen and if they find me they can spend days looking at my content oh like that's that's the mindset you have to to take like one it's practice every time you get better you get better at thumbnails you get better at at titles you get better at pacing editing everything it's just practice and second once things really blow up you need to have like a library of things where once they they get addicted to one like one it's drugs once they get addicted to your content once they can go to the second hit then there's a drug dealer he's a digital drug dealer hey man the streets the streets and content it's very very similar right um but i think thank you thank you for sharing that i appreciate it i i used to literally for a living help people go full time making content and media businesses for a living and a lot of what you're saying is true the time to get in on a trend is before it blows up before it peaks the time to get in on a game is pre-launch then you build that library of content before the game launches before the trend launches before it goes mainstream you become one of the authorities on that topic and then you ride that trend wave as it goes up ninety percent of content creators and media businesses that went full time and went big use that precise strategy don't just take my words for it take a look at what we're doing on the elluvium archive channel to your point tsg right now i've already chopped up with the team 132 elluvium videos on this archive channel deep in a bear market when interest is at an all-time low over the last year why would i be building a library of two 100 five hundred one thousand two thousand five thousand videos about elluvium on a channel here it's because it's not the drugs uh but i understand your analogy with the charts the reason why we're building this giant archive is when interest increases we will have that massive library of content about elluvium where any topic anyone could be searching about alluvium there's a video answering that with smart people giving you a relatable answer with visuals and that's going to pay massive dividends longer term so if you can be the type of person before a trend blows up to start investing in practicing making content every day your first 200 videos your first 200 articles your first 200 podcasts are going to be terrible you're going to be very bad at it for a long time but then once you but once you get a couple hundred repetitions in then you get a thousand in then you get ten thousand in i'm at like fifteen thousand repetitions right now i'm making content like this over the last fifteen years then you can really start to understand the mastery of it you can start to get the awkwards out and then you can start to be one of the best in your space that is you hopefully you can be something like that as the trend rises so if anybody out there was wanting to understand when is the time to start building a web3 media business it's actually right now when interest is at an all-time low that means competition is at an all-time low which means your opportunity to get viewership has never been better the odds have never been more in your favor any other um thoughts on this matter otherwise we've got a whole gigantic country to summarize basically in like 10 minutes here germany any other final thoughts on the creator subject i just wanted i just wanted to ask you guys one thing and it's like do you think everyone is actually cut out for it because like all of us know how hard and like the dedication it takes so i'm just curious do you guys think everyone is actually cut out for it i think i think the hardest the hardest thing for me has been to know your limits um i i do personally believe that everyone is cut out for it but obviously everyone needs to go at a very different pace someone might only be able to produce a video every two weeks to not burn themselves out and someone might be able to produce a video every day and not burn themselves out i think i think understanding your limits and quite frankly i still barely know mine is is a skill set that is very difficult to learn but once you do learn it it will it will be very important in your content creating journey i suppose well here's a question from the audience that let's bring up here to the panel you know there's a point made earlier isn't everyone a content creator the answer is you have to be now if you want a job you need to create content on linkedin if you want anyone to take you seriously uh you know if like seriously if you don't have a personal brand now you might not be able to get a job even today or in the future everything's moving digital everything's moving online so content is mandatory to make a living now so here's a question from greedyhamster isn't finding your niche as a content creator as important as your timing sandro what are your thoughts on that of finding the right game the right niche the right topic versus getting into the market at the same time are these exclusive or are you discovering these at the same time uh when you're making videos what are your thoughts on that sandro no i think uh that's why i'm saying it's it's for me it's an opportunity of a lifetime with web 3 and crypto games at the moment because if you want to grow on social media you have to find your niche it's you can't upload a league of legends let's play where you go mid lane or something no one's gonna watch your videos and stuff and when i hear uh about crypto games last year it was around june or july i read an article about axionfinity i never bought crypto before i didn't know anything about ethereum bitcoin and stuff i only was in my e-commerce consulting coaching bubble and i was like okay that's crazy it's going to change a whole industry it's going to change the gaming industry and much more um i'm going all in so i was like just so you know my background i'm doing youtube content since 2017 in german uh talking about selling products on amazon it's amazon fba i think maybe someone heard about it and i was like the biggest youtube channel in germany with 26 000 followers and um i read about crypto games and nfts and i was like okay this this could or this is it and i i'm going all in and i was from one day to another i was on my instagram uh with my making an instagram story and telling the people okay um tomorrow there is a new youtube channel and people will maybe expect expected like lifestyle channel or something because i moved to dubai last year but then i talked about nfts and crypto games and people was like oh uh what's wrong with this business guy now he's talking about some ape pictures and stuff but i think uh you know i was going all in and i'm all in at the moment but now i'm the the leading crypto gaming channel in germany with 14 000 subscribers and i think um just to give you some motivation everyone who's watching this i'm pretty sure at least you know someone who is trying to become a streamer yeah i also have friends who everybody knows somebody who's trying to make a podcast or do a live stream or start a blog or start a guild or whatever yeah yeah and i have friends they are streaming two three times a week on twitch with maybe five viewers they love what they do but they also uh want to become or make it to become bigger streamers you know they can play different games and stuff so i think at the moment or right now it's the best time to start something take this this content here for your personal motivation and just start anything it can be a block it can be a discord it can be twitch chatting crypto tokenomics stuff you have so many opportunities and because we are in a super small niche right now it's very likely that if you're going to stick to it and keep going that you will become

how did you say it a relevant person one of them yeah relevant person once uh web 3 will moon speaking of moon the german market is mooning right now i was shocked at some of the statistics that i learned about germany let me just share some of what i'm talking about right now this man's the king of germany as we know how can you be king of a market that has 34 million germans play video games and computer games which shocked me 36 percent of all germans were german gamers play regularly and 42 percent play occasionally with the average german gamer being 37.5 years old really really interesting and what was cool about uh this report i looked i was like okay well how much of the market does that really represent how much money is in german gaming right now yeah talk about 11 billion dollars in revenue in 2021 with 17 year-over-year growth from 2020 to 2021 making germany the fifth largest gaming market in the entire world and i thought that this was fascinating and this is a market that you know if you're american in particular you don't pay attention to other countries because you think you're number one well guess what germany is very relevant and if you're interested in the web 3 space if you're interested in the crypto gaming space these games are going to be more global more international and more directly tied in to other nations than web 2 games ever were because not only are the player bases going to be international but the ownership of the actual protocols will be international the governance will be international and as you can see from elluvium's discord as an example the uh the nations that come together to make up that core community are from all over the world more so in web 3 ever than we saw in web 2. so sandra we've got the resident expert on this topic the first thing i want to know is should german gamers come over to nft gaming i mean it sounds like they're doing great over in that web 2 gaming they've been playing a lot of why should they care about nft gaming and web 3 gaming at all like why would why would germans care can you give us some insight yeah we have a big problem in germany and in the german community because we have not a single big youtuber or streamer who is pro nft or pro metaverse pro crypto games there's literally no one who is like hey this this is going to be huge and this is the future but there are many many um content creators who are against nfts and i think that's um that's a big big problem in the german market and it's gonna be it takes uh it will take more time to get the german player into uh web three because they why are they against it what's the fud what are the top reasons why they're against it and what are the what what how are they scaring people about nft i think people are not uh educated enough but they have a it's i don't know if it's a german problem only but the the people in germany they have a very strong opinion but they don't know anything about the topic you can't uh speak with them about uh sounds like americorps

you can talk with someone about bitcoin and they will be like ah now this is [ __ ] and scam and then you could ask him okay but where did you get your information from and they will be like my coworker said something bad about it so it's bad or something so there's no um they are not educated but have a very strong opinion and that this is a big problem in germany because we have very very bad content creators with uh with a um with like 100 000 clicks on every uh youtube video and they are talking [ __ ] they don't know anything about nfts and they're like oh look this nft scam and this stupid bought ape pictures and stuff and i think for the german market it's very very important that a good game is playable so that's why no financial advice but i'm a very big not a very big but i'm a a lot of investors invested in elluvium i bought a tier four land and also got a lot of iv staked big baller i think once the open world is ready and it's a free free-to-play game i think this will be a maybe a change for the the german consumer at least but we have a very big problem on the content creator side there is no like um i don't know can we talk about people who are banned on twitch we can say no do not because we're streaming on twitch don't say their names or we will be we will be bantering i think we can't talk about it but it's not it should not be the main topic but you know in america there are some popular streamers and gamers who uh started a web 3 company or something so and in germany there's creators that are not very respectful and also have doctorate degrees yeah i know who you're talking about yeah yeah right but in germany there's no one there's no one but we but i know um that some creators got nfts but they can't talk about it because the community was would start to hate them because everyone is like or nfts are scam so the german market would is going to be very hard for the german creators but i think once we have gameplay and good games and not like oh this game is coming in a few months and soon soon soon once people can see it and play it it's it will be slow and steady uh the growth but um does this german market yeah i want to ask a question does this remind you at all of um how how did things go when let's say we went from single player games that you could buy with a little literal physical box and you put in the cd in your computer to online gaming and then the transition from online gaming to mobile gaming in america the reaction seemed very similar to what you were describing where when we went from holding a physical box and owning the game and playing it on your computer to online games everyone complained in the united states about how this is going to ruin gaming and its terrible and evil corporations then when we went from online gaming to them being on your phone all the conversations were about how phone games and mobile games were the devil and their evil monetization but yet in each of these transitions despite the fact that the mainstream narrative was negative and people said this was terrible for gaming they all played those games and gave these companies all their money anyway so are we just basically running into that situation all over again and is this just a technological pattern humans don't like new technology they [ __ ] about it but then they ultimately use it and give it all their money i mean is that what we're looking at here or is germa or germans going to be more hard-headed because i know that germans can be a bit like a rock and immovable sometimes so what are your thoughts on that nine nine

um yeah you know i'm not a i'm not a um a gaming expert you know i have an e-commerce company and stuff so i'm also started the gaming channel with the web 3 and stuff but yet i think i don't want to be rude or something but at the moment we are we are in a stage like where we talk about investments a bit you know no financial advice okay but we can't play right now we're just some people who thinks um that we know how the future will look like in the gaming space but um we can't play right now and i think the the normal consumer the normal gamer um doesn't buy crypto doesn't buy stocks or something right he's like okay i got my nine to five job and i want to play video games and now there are some people on the internet saying no crypto at the future web 3 is the future and stuff so i think it's also very hard to understand at the moment for the uh for the normal gamer but i think in the german market there is like a small bubble of content creators it's very different from the english space they're like maybe 10 to 20 content creators and they all react to their live streams and youtube videos so it's not like there are thousands of content creators it's more like okay there are 10 20 very very big streamers and if you want to reach the the followers of these of these content creators um one of them maybe needs to start also playing like some web 3 games because i think at the moment they the the german bubble is i don't like what is a good word in english basically this inner circle of a core group of creators that have all of the attention in germany yes and if you can get just a couple of those guys to try these out then it could expand and spread like wildfire within yes because the community is like they're like sheeps you know they don't do their no offense to all of our viewers no offense no offense it's actually in the comments yeah no it's not they're like oh no nfts are scam and you could ask but what is an nft yeah it's a non-fungible token yeah but what is an nft why is it a scam is internet scam for you no it's not but they don't have a like like education or something but they have so much opinion right so right i think this is this this will be tough for me and tom you know there was an interesting topic that you brought up screen i want to kick it over to you scoriaks um sandro was talking about how the early let's say gen 1 crypto games were very investy let's say it was all about like axi infinity as a the most uh famous example people bought into axiomfinity they infinitely printed slp they made as much money as possible all the rhetoric in the media was about how you should buy now it's going to the moon metaverse is taking off it was all about the money making not about the games so i want to ask you as somebody who focuses on tokenomics that back projects how do you you know globally this isn't just for germany how do you keep audiences engaged in crypto gaming nft gaming web3 gaming whatever it is that we're going to call this if it's all about making the money like i know you focus on the money aspects of it the tokenomics but if it's all about making the money is this really gaming do you keep people's attention what if everybody loses money let's say in a bear market are they all gone again next round how do you see that kind of playing out in terms of keeping people's attention if money is such a focus in this space i think i think that's one of the reasons i found such a passion for alluvium is that the money side of things is really separate from the gameplay right the money side of things is more like investing in a stock for a gaming company rather than investing in gaming assets and investing in playing the game and things like that like axiomfinity um attempted right so i i think i really like that divide where elluvium's token is more about investing in the success of elluvium rather than investing in playing the game or anything like that obviously this is not financial advice um but yeah so i really like that divide i think we're going to see more of that in the future obviously the gaming and the the good game side of things is going to take precedence as we move forward um it's become very clear that the game has to be good to sustain a player base and even if you can earn from the game you need a player base to be able to earn from the game so you can't have one without the other so i think the gaming and the the good how good the game is is going to take a front seat and then the investing side of things i think is going to be quite separate and we're going to have that divergence as we move forward so the other thing i can't remember what i was going to say um commented do you mind commenting on this one i pulled up on the screen i feel like this is a huge topic to cover gamers have endured overly aggressive monetization in their games for over a decade they're jaded and maybe they see nft gaming as just another way to extract money from them i suspect that in the german market there's a bit of that sentiment as well i mean sandra you can correct me if i'm wrong but gamers have been extracted for mouse keyboard controllers accessories micro transactions skins your graphics cards you're overpaying for your playstation 5 that's 1200. the t-shirts the conferences the plushies they are just sucking all of your money from you and nft gaming is just another way to suck the money out of your wallet how do you as somebody focuses on tokenomics do you you know you know how do we fight that perception if there's all these new economic and financial aspects to these games they've it's got to be nefarious right i mean how do you counter that i think i think you can't underestimate it um one of my favorite games of all time was star wars battlefront 2 and it dice or ea or whatever just completely shattered it in australia once people thought it was pay to win and things i can't find a game in australian servers anymore and it's really really upsetting but it just shows the power of the consumer and how much control they really have but that being said i think a lot of this market is driven by social media and what you find is as soon as crypto goes back up again and crypto nft and so on becomes the buzzwords that drive traffic you're gonna get a lot of people that are using nfts to drive views to their channels and things like that and eventually if nfts do slightly tick into like 51 good 49 bad then that is going to be like a wildfire spread effect in my opinion that people are going to be like talking about nfts in a good way because they just want the views they want the clicks that's that's all this that's all this is at the moment it's it's being able to drive traffic to your audience and as soon as it shifts just a little bit now everyone's on board the nft training sort of like how uh corporations media businesses entertainment companies were using the term metaverse over and over again we're buying bungie because it's a metaverse we're investing into epic games because it's a metaverse every investment in the space was somehow a metaverse investment even though they were just buying companies that had nothing to do with metaverse it's kind of like that like they want to jump on the trend because it's the trend and because they know they'll get brownie points with their board of directors kind of thing is that what you mean by that yeah so i i like to think that over time if something is good people will recognize it as good it's not much of a better way to say that but how i'm viewing it is nfts will eventually come into the spotlight again right and i expect most people or at least most web 2 companies and things to talk about them in a bad way but eventually enough people will want to educate themselves on the subject further and further and they will learn that maybe everyone will eventually be able to make up their own mind and eventually they'll be like oh yeah nfts aren't so bad then over the course of time people will be like yeah they aren't such a bad thing and all these other companies that are trying to talk them down and say they're really bad their views will drop off they'll be like okay we have to go the other direction now to get the views again so i i think it's just it's just a vibe for attention and eventually when enough people are educated on the subject the vi the most sense is going to be for nfts are good um but i definitely think a rebranding of the topic sentence i've seen it a few times in the chat already that they're probably going to be called digital collectibles or whatever it is um down the road bring that up i wanted to bring that out they're going to be entertained yeah do so let's talk about the terminology then and folks watching live in chat we want to hear from you as well do you like the term nft or do you like the term digital collectibles or do you like neither so nfts digital collectibles neither let's go around starting with sandro which one do you think is better nft digital collectibles or neither and who cares uh what are your thoughts i think and if i think nft is fine because an nft is not only a digital collectible thing it could also just be a contract or something and i just think it needs more time but i think nft for mass adoption and for the future it's it's okay for games sure we should educate people that an nft in a game is a digital collectible thing like in skin uh an illuvia yeah got it okay one vote for nfts tsg what do you think nft is fine i agree nft is fine uh and like it's just like it's just a fundamental technology so i don't think we need to like you know change it like an nfc is an nft it's a non-fungible token it is what it is and then like like you guys are saying all the the guys in chat are saying in-game you can call it an in-game asset um but it just it's just a more specific like like a dog is a dog and you got german shepherds you have like dalmatians it is what it is but a dog is a duck so it's the same thing in nfts in nft you might have membership entities you might have in-game assets different different things but it's just an nft got it we're getting the opinion of people that are already in right now still just so we're clear all of you guys are already here so you're not turned off by a non-fungible token go tell non-fungible token to somebody on the street and they'll like punch you in the face what do you think about nft versus digital collectible versus to hell with both of those options do you think it matters what do you think no i'm gone i'm going way against the grain here um not nft i think i think there's two big reasons for this firstly i didn't know what the word fungi meant when i first learned about the word nft and that is a problem for any brand is explaining your thing have you ever tried to explain non-fungible to someone it sucks it's awful it's such a it's such a confusing term no one is going to latch onto it um and i wrote a thesis on digital collectibles that was pretty much the title was digital collectibles as soon as you put those two words in front of any person that is like even in high school they know what digital collectible means so i just think it makes the most sense um long term i'm gonna have to agree i i don't like the term nft as well explaining i had to explain fungibility to my mom on the phone but what is the difference then the thing is if you say nft league of legends league of legends media is also a digital collectible thing and also yeah and also i want to say like the thing that the people but really quick really quick people trust league of legends skins they already know what those are and they know it's a digital collectible so that's good so by so so that's how every technology gets adopted right you don't say it's a new thing you say it's like the old thing you always collected your fortnite skin your league of legends skin those were digital collectibles but now the difference is you actually own your digital collectibles and you can keep them in your wallet versus having to tell them okay let's talk about fungibility all right let me pull a dollar out of my pocket and talk about how this can be printed by the you lost them already right so just like with mail to email right it's like mail but it's electronic okay digital collectibles and web 2 versus digital collectibles and web 3. it's like league of legends skins but you own it i don't know seems like a pretty easy explain tsg you were going to say something yeah i was going to say like i understand what you're saying but i still like like you don't need to explain what an nft is like when people go to an atm do they know what atm actually means like do they know what it stands for no but they know they go to an atm they get money out so you can use the same thing with nft you don't need to say oh yo so it's a non-fungible token and this is what it means you can just say yo it's a thing online that you own done it's we just call it an nft so i say i'm going to the atm to get cash out i have an nft that i own online done like i don't think it's if it works for atms and things like that i don't see why it's too much of a difference i understand where you're coming from um but i just don't think it's just a new thing i think if you repeat it enough like we we get used to it like i mean like the the masses get used to it but i might be wrong i might be wrong all of these are good points we have more to discuss in terms of nfts though for example of the current applications of nfts that are out there which are the most useful and which are the least useful so the reason why i'm bringing that up is if we go look at i don't know if you've heard of this website it's called open sea i think it's about the oceans or something check it out and here we go look at the top collections there's aliens i don't know throwing up fire or something here there's some crappy looking pixel thing i guess and there's a skull of a dead ape i guess who likes to boat so i'm just wanting to bring up you know as a normie taking a look at the space and if i'm like okay i've heard of open c in the news i'm going to go look and see what's out there

none of this looks like it does anything good for me in my life or looks like it actually is going to help me or be interesting in any way and so the question i'm wanting to ask just on the surface when we're talking about you know one percent of people that are coming in or in but then you go shop out there in the nft space and you go look and see what's out there you're like what does this have to offer to me what are your thoughts on the current utility of nfts dominated by profile pictures dominated by kind of media hype dominated by buy now and it's going to go up in infinity value later is this uh useful or not and do we have any nfts around today that are actually useful um versus maybe the top stuff that's out there that's almost purely aesthetic social and kind of social cloud and credibility sort of arena what are your thoughts on that i'd like to start with sandro i know i just made fun of all these top projects but to make a point if i was if i was a normie looking at these top projects i'd be like well what the f does a fire throw up alien dude for me like why should i care just let's make something fun about a billion dollar valued company what the [ __ ] is yoga labs you know no it's like um you know we're building the metabours at the moment so i think every every nft is um you know how do you say it in english like even if it's only a collectible thing that people want to gamble with like it's uh the value will increase and stuff i think everything is fine but for me personal um is this a question where i do invest or what i'm looking for or what should i say

andrew uh what you're looking i mean it's it's just a matter of about what's valuable to you is what you're trying to say okay what is the value to you right with any of these projects so out of anything that's out there right now what is useful to you right now and what is not useful to you right now out of the offerings i just showed openc top projects just as an example of the types of things that are out there in terms of nfts is any of that actually useful to you okay so um i'm not a collectible nft buyer so i don't have a board ape or muted ape or other nfts with no utility i only buy gaming nfts i'm looking for a good land and um also for some characters and some games i'm when i invest at the moment i'm i i ask myself if i think this company or this this game will be relevant the next five years this was also my question when i invested in elluvium and bought my aluminum lens i really think that the warwick brothers and the studio got the the attitude to build a good gaming studio it could also it could also be like a web 2 gaming studio i think they can create good games in the future that's why i bought illuvium land and i know eluvium land for example got utility i will generate some fuel and stuff or or like the blueprint nfts so this is something i'm uh i'm personally interested in but i also bought uh an other deed and a land entity from the other side metals from this small company uh yoga labs maybe you heard from yeah yeah dead dead apes or whatever and on a boat but they yeah so so you're more interested in the gaming aspect of this you know i'm just showing the mutablex's marketplace these are mostly gaming projects so you like something that you can interact with that you can use that you can play with that has more than just like a it's in my collection it has some aesthetic properties it goes beyond like let's say just being a work of art if you will if we were to use like traditional collectibles to be something that you can actually interact with and engage with deeply and those are the sorts of things that you like you have well god's unchained god's unchanged you can buy like cards if you like the game and think they could uh build a good community this could be interesting also for guild of guardians if you think moba games and web 3 is a good uh could be a good opportunity um you could buy a character or something and yeah this these are the the only nfts i'm i'm looking for so i'm not a collectible nft investor i never understood i i uh i never got my

i i never wanted to invest in a board ape i'm in like every youtube video when i'm talking about yoga labs or the bot apes i was like okay i think in the future the value goes up and i was always always right but i never bought one because it it never felt right for me to invest in a collectible nft only so just having the collectible having the financial appreciation was not exciting to you that was not enough tsg i see you signaling over there what do you want to say about this i mean of the nft offerings that are out there what are the most useful and what are the least useful in the world for you yeah uh i wasn't signaling i was actually just changing my my ac turning it was a bit cold um in regards to the what's actually useful okay so like all of the things that you showed uh on openc right now it's just uh essentially like for the most part it's just uh um i don't think that's enough to actually onboard people because it is just speculation even in like the fine art world uh i is speculation i think we're only gonna see genuine adoption and this is my my opinion and i'd love to know what you guys think is the the biggest outside of gaming what's the biggest opportunity for nft users um we'll get into that at some point i'm sure but uh so the thing that i what i think is gonna happen and what i feel is gonna happen is once we start actually transitioning from things that we do today uh things that we use today for papers and stuff like that like a plane ticket i think that's gonna be an nft i think movie tickets concert tickets are gonna be nfts like michael jackson's uh michael jackson super bowl stubs are still being sold those are collectible like these are things that you can use in real life and then collector like how many people would have bought that stuff and lost it but if you have an entity it's a lot hard or a digital collectible for those that want that uh it's a lot harder to lose that right so i think um things like what the the super bowl thing the super bowl map is actually simple i want the digital collectibles thing but anyway please continue so me homie in chat on youtube agrees with you movie tickets experiences real world products but on the blockchain to prove that ownership that takes this beyond just being a uh an art collectible something that has this only subject well the thing is in both cases it's got subjective value but one is connected with a real life experience whereas the other one's only connected with whether you think it's aesthetically pleasing or valuable in some other emotional way correct and it's just like it's like it's what we're using already like if you go to subway for example you get like your sub or like starbucks like you're you get 10 10 stamps and then you get it right but instead of having like a real life stamp or something on your phone like it could be an nft and they could like commission like for example i think this is why i went back to communities back like at the start of the conversation i think it's important to build that uh community because if you're for example saying you're starting a copy a copy business right and you're trying to compete with starbucks it'd be a good idea for you to actually support your own community hire an artist of your local community to build an nft collection card right not a membership card uh when you go to a place a lot i forget what it's called but you guys know what i mean um what's the word called you can you guys help me out when you go to a place a frequency card i don't know you're talking a loyalty card a loyalty program yeah that's the one that's the one so like if you're like a coffee shop owner and you get like one of your local kids of the community to design that and one day they blow up that increases the value yes but for the local community they're gonna see that one you're supporting the community and they're gonna have a loyalty card anyway so they might as well use it anyway right they're supporting the community plus it's beneficial for them they don't need to carry a physical card like people have thick wallets like or purses you get rid of all those things so i think more like for my mom for like people like my mom my grandma like a lot of people's moms gaming is not what's gonna onboard them a starbucks loyalty card is gonna onboard them that's a really good point and i love the idea of tot of tying in with even something as ordinary as buying coffee tying in your local community and owning a piece of your local community even when you're just booping for coffee through an nft on the blockchain that totally makes sense i could see my mom as well wanting to do that and wanting to support that they love going to the local market in their area and buying art from local artists even if it's crappier than mainstream artists just because it's local so that's a cool real-life example outside of this nft bubble we're all in where these nfts could be useful to the general public that's cool the question i have go ahead go ahead sorry if i can actually one last thing sorry this is one thing that i really want to get across as well it's like so that's what understood the real the real world like capabilities of that for like people like our moms and stuff like that another thing is like i don't know in most countries but most countries if you buy a gym membership like most people we know how gyms work you pay for it and you stop going that's what most people do and once you stop going what happens to that membership it's wasted it's done but let's say i like what if that was in nft and let's say i'm done with the membership i can't be bothered going anymore but my brother wants to go oh maybe i wouldn't sell it to my brother i'd just give it to him but like my cousin they can pay for it like i could sell it to them right so they now have ownership of that membership they're still using that and i don't get fully ripped off or you can own it or rent it or do any other financial transaction with that membership and the gym gets a royalty so it's like it's more it's beneficial for them because they continue getting royalties that way all right my cousin gives up on it he gives to someone else and it's consistent royalties forever perpetuity and it's like it makes business sense on that end and for us as well we don't feel like we're getting scammed so that's just another thing sorry i did jump in there again so i apologize no it's okay i mean this is a really interesting case let me ask goryox though so one thing that everybody wants to know this is gonna be our last topic and then we're gonna have to call it here for the stream you know we've got all of these different uh layer one and layer twos that all of this could take place on uh and my question for you scoring somebody that still studies tokenomics which layer ones and layer twos do you think are set up for success all of them none of them or why or do you think it matters at all so you know we're talking about the range of super hardcore folks in the space buying a crypto punk on one end of the spectrum all the way to the other end of the spectrum of maybe your mom in 10 years is going to starbucks and boopin to get an nft of a local artist which layer ones and layer twos are going to be successful in that space is it a ton of them only a few or none of the ones that we currently see be curious to know how you think about that amigo i think oh it's such a hard one because crypto changes every six months probably like every month if you're really watching it close enough um i think there's a big distinction here firstly blockchain gaming is a good example of something that can't really sustain an ethereum because even once sharding comes into it and things like that it can't do nearly as many transactions as blockchain gaming will need especially when you have hundreds or even thousands of blockchain games got the merge man 2.0 bro it's going to save it's going to save everybody and everything it's going to change my life right

so i think layer 2 solutions especially down the road will be really really important for things like blockchain gaming and i'm sure there are so many other uses of nfts and technologies and things that we haven't even thought of they just won't be doable on layer one that being said i still think layer one is going to be the most important factor here firstly it's the biggest place that is on boarding people until that changes layer one will never ever go away and it will always be the biggest the other thing is that i believe layer one um is the biggest aspect for security right so you the deeper you go into these layers layer two maybe there's a layer three one day um eventually you're sacrificing security for speed the idea of the ethereum blockchain is everyone needs to validate every single transaction every single time and the reason they do that is so that no one can ever attack the network and the network is quite safe the other side of this is that ethereum is so large being in the hundreds of billions of dollars um or the tens of billions of dollars i can't remember it's moving so quickly but it's so large that's really difficult to attack the network and it's so decentralized as well so for that reason i think things like if it really does shape the new financial system and the new financial network of the world i don't think you can shift that off to a layer two i think you have to live with the gas fees because these gas fees are what's protecting the network that being said ethereum might be slow in comparison to layer two solutions but still way faster than the current financial systems of the world thank you that's a really good thought right there so it's always security versus speed and convenience and as we can see as you move further and further out on that speed and convenience scale out to being on exchanges or lending platforms celsius and voyager come to mind and you extend yourself out in the risk range of of being here they're in the core on ethereum all the way out to being on some third-party platform that's interacting with it on your behalf you're extending yourself out on the risk curve it's time to shill my friends chill chill chill starting with sandro biggest community in germany i've heard king of germany i've also heard where can people follow you and what should they do chill away my friend what what what should i share you're supposed to tell everybody to follow you or say something that you want people to do okay yeah if you uh understand german you can follow me

otherwise i will be here again with my oxford english

all right cool his link is in the youtube description below go find his channel he does english interviews as well he's interviewed me on his channel great community and uh if you know anyone uh who is a part of a german gamer or part of the german community or wants to see what that's all about literally royalty tsg chill away uh yeah well yeah awesome so obviously uh my link is down below tsg eluvium nfc is my main channel uh yo i need to say with skyrocks here as well we have our augment podcast and so please do us a favor check out our augments clip channel um we do daily stuff over there and also i do need to shout out my new podcast with uh with annie knows and i will crypto uh gaming on the block we rotate uh every week on our channel so uh if you check out the channel the episode on mine you'll find the links there links for for their channels and we also have gaming on the blocks clips so we are going hard at building this media business a hundred percent thank you andrew you're welcome dude i love the art movements he's like i'm going hard a hundred percent he's always bringing it in the camera you know scoriax what you got buddy um oh i mean i've already shield myself plenty on the socials and all the rest of it um just my youtube channel is great uh tonight i have an interview i had with jp from arcade dropping it's in about like 18 hours from now i think jp friend of a louvre talks friend of the show jp is a good listen so where can people find that one um so that'll just be on my youtube channel so that's dropping um at 10 p.m sydney time or my maybe 9 p.m sydney time i think it's 10 p.m but um that that's a really really good video a really good talk i wanted to get to the bottom of arcade um because i think it's going to be a really interesting player in the space and i'm very eager to to be more involved with in the future and like yeah i don't know i think it's a great talk if anyone was confused about what arcade's doing and if it's going to be really interesting um then definitely make sure to tune into that video perfect thank you so much for watching and thank you for all of our guests for joining today and we'll be live once more with the louvre talks next week on the same channels on twitch twitter and youtube and if you have not already get over to elluvium.io louvitar's punch in your email and you'll be notified of all of the updates huge new features such as albums and collections that will be maybe coming to louvitar's we can all hope so and we will give you updates on how to acquire those eluvitars how all of these things will work and how hopefully this will change the profile picture nft game my name is andrew thank you for watching and see you in the next one adios